You played on Large map so it's not 5-10 turns and it's very different from Medium.
But you did actually prove my point: if you play production well (like you did), you are ready by turn 20 (if your opponent does not do a super exploit of MC etc. which needs to be fixed on MC's side, not on production or map size's side), and there is no need to have 5-10 more turns provided by Medium.
Dwarf MH
Why do you assume I judge from one game (specifically I had prior experience with Dwarf MH and players expressed the opinion that they were "almost unkillable" in this game https://www.the-battlefield.com/aow3/index.php?page=resultinfo&gamenumber=1157 but obviously also on others)? Do you think I played no game and this is the first report I see? Also why do you assume more than what is meant, I'm just asking you your opinion about whether you think Dwarf MH needs a nerf.
Also, the fact that Dwarves overall are possibly too strong, or that MH + Explorer are too strong, does not mean that it's solely an issue with Dwarves or MH (separately): it can be an issue in the synergy/interaction between the two. In particular, Dwarves are supposed to be slower to balance out their tankiness. Their Cavalry moves 32 MP. They don't have racial units with 36 MP. So accessing 40 MP is different for them than for other races.
Just like you could say Tireless is fine on its own and does not make a unit OP, same for Total Awareness, and same for Life Stealing. The three combined on one unit is a lot stronger.
Essence Harvest
Yes, that's not possible to have a cap or to have a decreasing yield of CP gained unfortunately.
> Dwarf MH need some kind of nerf (too fast, too beefy) No. It is the same "dwarf" bonus as for other units. MH in general in conjunction with explorer specialization? Maybe, but I find it strange to judge from one game.
> Essence Harvest needs a nerf (more expensive or a disjunctable strategic spell costing CP, or something) Maybe. Farming 400CP in a few turns is fun, but doesn't look good if you play against it. Would be good probably to have hard cap per turn or progressive scale for it, but most likely it cannot be implemented.
> it should not be possible to do the 6 battles you added as screenshot (and I guess you know it, otherwise you would not post them) Why not? All is fine (c) I wanted to post some unusual battles (usually I share them if I have something), some sort of puzzles to solve for those who wants.
@Hiliadan These military score and army screenshots for you. You didn't tell anything about MC vs production comparison. About army maintaining costs, expansion speed, map size and additional 5-10 turns difference.
@Refineus > How can you solo those battles with Dread reapers? 100% blight, 100% spirit, 40% frost, 14 (?) res, 3 damage channels + holy champion, regrowth. LK is a lottery - if you have spirit immunity, you can handle it, otherwise you either run away (if they act on first turn) or be ready to have your stack wiped.
I guess you're going to say that all is fine but don't you think that:
- Dwarf MH need some kind of nerf (too fast, too beefy)
- Essence Harvest needs a nerf (more expensive or a disjunctable strategic spell costing CP, or something)
- it should not be possible to do the 6 battles you added as screenshot (and I guess you know it, otherwise you would not post them) - how did you do the one with the Firstborn? That's impressive
Otherwise, very well done and well executed strategy. Clearly, I don't think the changes I suggest would change the results. But that doesn't mean they're not worth implementing.
Played on large map, land only, normal research, PBEM 1.30
Dwarf rogue hero, friendly town size neighbour. Good vassalization quest for firstborn, charmed ice queen and baby reed serpent (the only good converted units, the rest of the game was quite unlucky in conversions). Rushed the second city early, absorbed my neighbour as soon as I could and managed to get “very happy” race happiness. Built some production buildings and with “wealthy empire” reached 1 turn MH production in three cities (so 3.5 MH per turn). Two cities with “mercenary” and one city with “enchanted armor”. Casted “scales of fortune” on all 4 cities and started non-stop production since turn 16 (at turn 19 in all 4 cities).
Summoned/produced many irregulars, bought cheap units from inns and formed secondary stacks with them. Got “summon obsidian dragon” spell and casted first on turn 23. With additional research from wizard towers and sphinx temples, researched important empire upgrades and strategic spells. Achieved centurion empire quest on turn 27. Many battles with “essence harvest” gave a lot of CP to cast three obsidian dragons, draft, conqueror's feast, inspire loyalty and shield of dispassion before turn 30.
Conquered and vassalized some cities and dwellings. Had 7 cities and 6 vassals, completed “heptatopia” on the last turn and was close to getting a “multicultural” (4/5) empire quest.
Cleared many high level sites and got really good items for my heroes. My leader had 21 def, life steal, 60% physical resistance, 80% poison resistance (could reach 100%, required to transfer some item) and was immune to everything else.
Researched master cartographer quite early and so knew cities locations and could track some Lightform movements.
Couple of turns before the end, I scouted his main stack with my rogue hero stack with dragons and feys and wanted to catch it, but it was too strong to attack with death march and next turn it ran away. So instead I tried to ambush some forces clearing sites near his cities and then capture them. At the same time leader's stacks were preparing to siege orc’s city conquered by Lightform. There were 1.5 stacks of mostly T1 units and I decided to attack them with only my leader to minimize units and HP losses (I didn’t have enough MP to do that and so had to sacrifice tiger).
Next turn killed a secondary stack with warlord hero and heavily wounded exalted and also captured city.
Lightform has surrendered next turn.
Knowledge score:
Military score:
Army in the end:
Produced/summoned: 38 T1, 50 T2, 4 T4 Converted: 2 T1, 1 T2, 2 T3 (incl. 1 evolved from T1), 1 T4 (evolved from T1) Quest/reward: 15 T1, 19 T2, 5 T3 (incl. 1 evolved from T2), 1 T4 Inn: 21 T1, 14 T3
Written by Hiliadan
You played on Large map so it's not 5-10 turns and it's very different from Medium.
But you did actually prove my point: if you play production well (like you did), you are ready by turn 20 (if your opponent does not do a super exploit of MC etc. which needs to be fixed on MC's side, not on production or map size's side), and there is no need to have 5-10 more turns provided by Medium.
Dwarf MH
Why do you assume I judge from one game (specifically I had prior experience with Dwarf MH and players expressed the opinion that they were "almost unkillable" in this game https://www.the-battlefield.com/aow3/index.php?page=resultinfo&gamenumber=1157 but obviously also on others)? Do you think I played no game and this is the first report I see? Also why do you assume more than what is meant, I'm just asking you your opinion about whether you think Dwarf MH needs a nerf.
Also, the fact that Dwarves overall are possibly too strong, or that MH + Explorer are too strong, does not mean that it's solely an issue with Dwarves or MH (separately): it can be an issue in the synergy/interaction between the two. In particular, Dwarves are supposed to be slower to balance out their tankiness. Their Cavalry moves 32 MP. They don't have racial units with 36 MP. So accessing 40 MP is different for them than for other races.
Just like you could say Tireless is fine on its own and does not make a unit OP, same for Total Awareness, and same for Life Stealing. The three combined on one unit is a lot stronger.
Essence Harvest
Yes, that's not possible to have a cap or to have a decreasing yield of CP gained unfortunately.
Written by keika
No. It is the same "dwarf" bonus as for other units.
MH in general in conjunction with explorer specialization? Maybe, but I find it strange to judge from one game.
> Essence Harvest needs a nerf (more expensive or a disjunctable strategic spell costing CP, or something)
Maybe. Farming 400CP in a few turns is fun, but doesn't look good if you play against it.
Would be good probably to have hard cap per turn or progressive scale for it, but most likely it cannot be implemented.
> it should not be possible to do the 6 battles you added as screenshot (and I guess you know it, otherwise you would not post them)
Why not? All is fine (c)
I wanted to post some unusual battles (usually I share them if I have something), some sort of puzzles to solve for those who wants.
@Hiliadan
These military score and army screenshots for you. You didn't tell anything about MC vs production comparison.
About army maintaining costs, expansion speed, map size and additional 5-10 turns difference.
@Refineus
> How can you solo those battles with Dread reapers?
100% blight, 100% spirit, 40% frost, 14 (?) res, 3 damage channels + holy champion, regrowth.
LK is a lottery - if you have spirit immunity, you can handle it, otherwise you either run away (if they act on first turn) or be ready to have your stack wiped.
Written by Refineus
How can you solo those battles with Dread reapers?
I know that leaders can be quite op at some point, but really.
Even I send in a some suicide T1 units to soften a lich King Castle I still afraid to lose a few units in my main stack.
Hmm..
Written by Hiliadan
I guess you're going to say that all is fine but don't you think that:
- Dwarf MH need some kind of nerf (too fast, too beefy)
- Essence Harvest needs a nerf (more expensive or a disjunctable strategic spell costing CP, or something)
- it should not be possible to do the 6 battles you added as screenshot (and I guess you know it, otherwise you would not post them) - how did you do the one with the Firstborn? That's impressive
Otherwise, very well done and well executed strategy. Clearly, I don't think the changes I suggest would change the results. But that doesn't mean they're not worth implementing.
Written by keika
Dwarf rogue hero, friendly town size neighbour. Good vassalization quest for firstborn, charmed ice queen and baby reed serpent (the only good converted units, the rest of the game was quite unlucky in conversions).
Rushed the second city early, absorbed my neighbour as soon as I could and managed to get “very happy” race happiness.
Built some production buildings and with “wealthy empire” reached 1 turn MH production in three cities (so 3.5 MH per turn). Two cities with “mercenary” and one city with “enchanted armor”. Casted “scales of fortune” on all 4 cities and started non-stop production since turn 16 (at turn 19 in all 4 cities).
Summoned/produced many irregulars, bought cheap units from inns and formed secondary stacks with them.
Got “summon obsidian dragon” spell and casted first on turn 23.
With additional research from wizard towers and sphinx temples, researched important empire upgrades and strategic spells.
Achieved centurion empire quest on turn 27.
Many battles with “essence harvest” gave a lot of CP to cast three obsidian dragons, draft, conqueror's feast, inspire loyalty and shield of dispassion before turn 30.
Conquered and vassalized some cities and dwellings. Had 7 cities and 6 vassals, completed “heptatopia” on the last turn and was close to getting a “multicultural” (4/5) empire quest.
Cleared many high level sites and got really good items for my heroes.
My leader had 21 def, life steal, 60% physical resistance, 80% poison resistance (could reach 100%, required to transfer some item) and was immune to everything else.
Researched master cartographer quite early and so knew cities locations and could track some Lightform movements.
Couple of turns before the end, I scouted his main stack with my rogue hero stack with dragons and feys and wanted to catch it, but it was too strong to attack with death march and next turn it ran away. So instead I tried to ambush some forces clearing sites near his cities and then capture them.
At the same time leader's stacks were preparing to siege orc’s city conquered by Lightform. There were 1.5 stacks of mostly T1 units and I decided to attack them with only my leader to minimize units and HP losses (I didn’t have enough MP to do that and so had to sacrifice tiger).
Next turn killed a secondary stack with warlord hero and heavily wounded exalted and also captured city.
Lightform has surrendered next turn.
Knowledge score:
Military score:
Army in the end:
Produced/summoned: 38 T1, 50 T2, 4 T4
Converted: 2 T1, 1 T2, 2 T3 (incl. 1 evolved from T1), 1 T4 (evolved from T1)
Quest/reward: 15 T1, 19 T2, 5 T3 (incl. 1 evolved from T2), 1 T4
Inn: 21 T1, 14 T3