Game #492 Tournament game#18 | Round 3 : PBEM 2v2 team tournament 2016 #18

We need to take screenshots for proof

Melciar needs to end this game. Jean can put a timer so that it is forced to end?

yeah I had wanted to take some screenshots melciar , I have finally left the match now

not sure why took you so long ?


anyways nvm GG Jean , good luck in next round guys

cheers

Game is still in progress can melcair finish so that we can see the victory and end this game

Confirmed by DarkRider

Thanks for the comments Jean.

Martyr doesn't have any exploit, I have played this strategy with other person like Tussell , Marcus, Gladis, etc. It just I became so good with this.

Actually Martyrs has bug which says they evolve faster after researching "Exalted Martyrs" but it seems it not working that way.

Just because one player is good at one strategy we cannot say it is op or exploit.

We didn't exploit or cheat anything as we don't know to do any such. I can give you some hints about my strategy as I don't want to give up my whole strategy.

1. Scroll sites
2. Seeks Inspiration
3. Rush
4. Expert before research
5. Leader and hero sacrifice levelling.

In this game me and Seer was trading gold and mana. I gave him all extra mana I have since I was not casting anything, he gave me extra gold he had so I can build and rush martyrs. This is a team game and we are allowed to exchange resources.

Note : We didn't exchange any cities, just resources.

Hello, guys.
Time to say a few words about the tourney game which unfortunately wasn't very interesting. 
My teammate had a very bad start this time. He wasn't concentrated enough and made some very bad fights:



As a result, he was demoralized and lost more units during the following turns including a draconian rider from the starting army and some tier-1 units. 
This was his only army at this time of the game >_<


He couldn't clean most of the difficult objects himself with such an army so I decided to help him with his roaming sites (undead dragons and lost souls) and some other objects for future towns. It slowed me a bit cause I lost 4-5 turns in order to travel to a roaming site and back. 
We still had a very good part of the map and hoped to overpower our opponents in the late game (I managed to research and cast Whispers of the Fallen, summon several banshees, and started to cast Undead Plague on Seer's cities).
But then this arrived.


I was a bit shocked by such an army. I even had to wait with my turn trying to figure out how it was possible. This is a scheme I've never tried and understanding this would certainly help a lot for the future games.

I've discussed this screenshot with my teammate Hellbrick, we came to the following conclusions. I'd like to post them here and I'm looking forward to hearing comments from Darkrider and Seer because I want them to enlighten me on this strategy

"It's very unlikely you can build them in vassal so quickly cause you need (1) to find it, (2) to capture it (3) to absorb it and then just start building. So I presume all of them came from the throne city. The last one should have been finished on turn 10. 1. The first 2-3 martyrs and the stack have to wait for the last 3 units because if you take your heroes, army and 3 martyrs and start moving on the map training the units then the last 3 martyrs will just run after the army not being trained. You can of course train them on another route but all this is not easy obviously. 2. You need 70 expa for a martyr, 420 for a stack of them. It's, for example, 39 units of 1 tier. With a perfect distribution of experience. This is real, well, but then you need 150*6=900 expa to train them to elite (and you can see on the screenshot that 5 of 6 of them are already like this) Let's presume that from one TIER-3 unit he had to get all the 30 expa. + 15 for kill = 45. Then he needed to kill 20 TIER-3 units just by exalted to get this medals with a perfect distribution of expa. I know that they get some expa for absorb pain but martyrs can not absorb from martyrs. So we can presume that he had to wait till all the martyrs were produced and then take them with the army. So is it possible to get such a stack in...9 turns? Or even less cause when we spotted it there were already exalted taking difficult objects, etc. He must have got this evolved stack even earlier. With like 39 t1 units killed to get exalted and 20 t3 to get them elite? And get all this army through the whole map to the borders of my ally's domain?...The distance between Darkrider and Melciar is quite big."

I have contacted judges (of course, not implying that I suspected cheating here), I wanted to find out whether the calculations were correct. They told me that it was probably possible to reach such a result, even they weren't sure

Another point is that Gladis has found an XP exploit. It has already been reported by Hiliadan to Truimph but hasn't been fixed yet.
What I'm wondering is that we have either an incredibly strong team strategy here which, of course, need to be fixed (cause it's not normal to have a full elite tier-3 floating stack with resurgence on turn 19 or even earlier; most of the classes don't have answers to it on such an early stage of the game and you get a free and easy cleaning of the vast majority of difficult objects on the map without losing a unit) or Darkrider might have used this XP exploit even without knowing it himself
I repeat, we don't see any cheating here, we see an unbalanced strategy. 

Returning back to the report:
Melciar of course didn't have any answers to such a stack. Moreover, exalted took a dungeon near his domain getting a firstborn (a very good answer to tier-1 draconian defense on the towns) so my teammate lost all his towns in several turns and was just sitting in his throne city.
I alone didn't see many chances in fighting such strong opponents. I had a try here:


I hoped to get a summon like tier-3 elemental or even obsidian dragon - something which could have increased my chances against floating exalted. But I got Mass Bless xD as a trolling cause it didn't work on undead at all. I also failed to ghoul the Fallen Angel and control wraths. 


When I saw the full floating Seer's stack I understood it would be just a matter of time. I wasn't able to capture both of them on the water alone. Melciar didn't want to continue this game too so we decided to surrender ^^

I hope that our next match vs Seer and Darkrider will be more interesting and tough. I wish them good luck in the match against Gab. After such a good game vs me they must produce a game of such an excellence, otherwise I will be disappointed xD

Match has been reported, please confirm!

Match has been reported, please confirm!

Sorry, I can't make it today - overtired after work. Will make my turn tomorrow.

Thanks for letting us know.

Hi, Darkrider.
I've sent a message to judges to check something, they will give me their answer today in the evening and I'll continue playing. With timer .

Jean can you put the timer back?

We need to put the timer back.

Game continued. Fortunately there is no player auto combat or big moves involved in my turn.

Ok that was quick! 2 judges agreed so DarkRider gets 1 warning but for a reload justified by an adequate proof. You can continue!

Screenshot sent to Hiliadan, please stop the timer I only have 11 hours left don't want the timer to run out .

Had a crash inside a tactical combat I will send screenshot to Hiliadan soon. I will wait for the green signal from him.

Only Triumph can confirm or not if there was an issue or not with the server which caused an Ironman notification in your game so reporting clearly to them is not fully unrelated to your game.
But the real aim of reporting clearly to them is to give them more cases to check, and no, having just 3-4 cases as now is not sufficient for them to solve the bug. I have been following this issue for months and have been in touch with Triumph all that time and I can assure you that they need more reports. Each one count. So I am a bit disappointed you did not report your other occurrence of the bug, nor did you let the other players you mentioned report their occurrences of the bug.
I do not get what were your technical difficulties to find the required info, I explained to you in details where to find the info (including ID of the game = in the text file) and marcus gave you screenshots of where the info are. Other people probably worse than you in terms of "IT skills" managed to do it earlier and if they had issues, they asked questions and we helped them.

Regarding the rating, please check the "Notifications only" chat and you'll see that I rated 5 players yesterday, it has nothing to do with this topic, it's just that I rated Melciar for our Duel tournament game and then I remembered I had forgotten to rate opponents of the 4x2. I rate all the players I play, you can check my opponents in all my games.

Now I am sorry that I indeed had to force you to report like that, I would have preferred it to go more smoothly but as judges we have to look at the bigger picture and it's really annoying to have in average 2 "Ironman notification on 1st load" claim every round of tournament and we really need this bug fixed. It ruined one game already (King Serpents vs Coup de Grace) and may ruin another (Fistandantilus vs Skuns) and we need to do all that is possible to have it fixed. So thanks for your efforts to report it to the devs.

You can continue your game, SeeR gets a warning for reload not justified by proper proof.

POSTED FILE ID AND APPROXIMATE TIME OF OCCURENCE on Triumph Forum

file size too big to upload

And today I also got this PLAYER has been rated notification...that is just petty

It seems to me that you are using your status as tournament judge to bully me into doing what you want me to do

when it really has no direct impact on this specific game



sure I want the BUG fixed also and have shown HONESTY in the past

The only Reason that one of the RULES is HOST can not take slot #1 in turn order is because
I made you aware of the Exploit it allows ( or allowed at the time ) uncertain if it has been corrected..I discovered it by accidental coincidence of a crash on turn 1


and so I am being penalized for lack of technical aptitude

u should allow this match to continue

Still do not know what you want me to do ?

And why I am required to do it ? ( since it does not prove anything about restart anyways )

Locating the game save is easy , I do not know how to find the game ID or whatever
requires to be ran in debug mode ? I have never done that before

exact time / date is beyond remembering now believe it was a Saturday/Sunday



as I have said the devs should have enough other incident details to analyze and discern the issue
from other players reports.

I wrote my comment on the Triumph forum thread exepressing my dissatisfaction with the issue.

If any of the other players have the info , by all means please report the specifics of GAME ID and time BUG occurrence.

Yes the change to "viewable only for team members" was announced in the PBEM Player Pool.

If you're refering to this post http://aow.triumph.net/forums... I'm sorry but SeeR did not provide any useful information, did not report the occurrence of the bug in other of his games (that he mentioned here) and did not let anyone else report the bug ("have heard several players with same issue lately in a number of games I am participating in.
and it also happened same day to another pbem I am involved in. ").

I'm sorry we are losing time here but I really don't get why SeeR refuses to take 2min to provide correct information to the devs. This is a very annoying bug and we need to take all the efforts necessary to have it solved. That will avoid such waste of time in the future.

Seems Seer has reported to Triumph. Shall we continue?

Note : By default Viewable only for team members is getting checked and losing the posts

Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 5:02 PM Pacific Time

SeeR, I do not understand why you do not take these steps. It's not about being interested or not, it's about solving this bug.

The email turn notifications , I delete those as soon as I receive them.....

also that day I was playing in a live match for about 4-5 hours at least since the turn notification ...then attempted to play my turn after the live game finished.....


if one of the other memebers of this game has still the "in game email " I sent out to all players
that would show the exact time within a few mins when I had this issue.

perhaps also I could discover from the steam screenshots library. not certain.

but again unless this is some way to PROVE id did not cheat....
I'm really not all that interested in taking these steps.

Had a look at Marcus "slideshow" this only does what ? shows which file the save game is ?

so I am supposed to do what send that file to some email address of one of the Devs ?

don't they have files from other occurences of this bug already ?


I really did not sign up for this nor have interest in BEING FORCED to do what you are asking


doing this will accomplish what ? help devs solve this ironman issue ?
that would be nice but it seems other players with more tech skills have already sent more detailed reports of this issue


I suggest if it continues to be a problem get somebody else example.....

If there is some other reason , please make me aware

SeeR, could you please report the required info to the devs? It's really easy to do, marcus showed you on screenshots where are the files. Ask to DarkRider for help if needed. We are waiting for you so that you can continue your game.

Well, since many players might be in the same situation as you Seer, and not know how to do it. Here is a slideshow of the steps needed to take from a Windows operating system.

http://imgur.com/a/e3VDM

I'm realy more of a Jock / soccer player


not a how do you say "computer geek"


and again I swear I did not cheat .....sheesh..ur being condescending

Hiliadan , no offense but I am not capable of following those instructions

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=869572098

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=869572069

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=869572030



the best I can do is to provide those

SeeR, that's the rules of the tournament, written to protect everyone from cheating. It's not about you. If we allowed all the players to not report because "they are not interested in reporting", everybody would be cheating. We don't care if we believe you or not, we cannot let you do as you please because then other players would argue to do the same. Similarly, it's not about your personal case, you need to report to Triumph so that they solve this bug and EVERYONE benefit, so please be a bit more altruistic here.
Now please stop whining and cooperate with the judges.

- please report also your other occurrence of the bug (that you mention in your message here) to Triumph: I guess you know how to do
- please write game ID: The saves are here: C:\Users\[user name]\Documents\My Games\AoW3\Profiles\[AoW3 account name]\PBEM Then check the .txt to find your game. The name of the file is its ID.
- file save size: same as above. The file is the .apg
- approximate time when it happened (you should be able to check that - more or less - from the email notifications for new turns): I guess that's explicit enough
- please let the other players you mention also report to Triumph: I guess you know how to do

if that is the case I need FULL instrucrtions on how to do what is being asked of me in terms of reporting this BUG

yeah Hiliadan this is a known issue , I'm not that interested in reporting the exact incident to the site ....

play this game for fun not to cheat ,

this is a know issue happen to at least several  to may plauers lately if I read the thread in the Triumph forum correctly...

I did post there , please let this game continue

there is no foul play at hand I swear !



SeeR

Reminder: it's not up to players (Jean and Melciar here) to decide if they think their opponents are honest or not, that's why we have judges, because the consequences of your trust also impact other players for future games.

We are discussing this between judges and will come back to you shortly.
SeeR, please report also your other occurrence of the bug (that you mention in your message here) to Triumph. Please write game ID, file save size, and approximate time when it happened (you should be able to check that - more or less - from the email notifications for new turns). And please let the other players you mention also report to Triumph, it is VERY important that we report ALL occurrences of the bug, otherwise it will never get fixed and we'll get pissed off by it all the time.

Please do not repeat that again: do not avoid reporting and then continue to play when there is a reload notification. Next time, all players involved get a warning.

And to make it clear: DO NOT CONTINUE PLAYING for now, wait for judges' green light.

I think I clearly said " you have to notify the judges when you have such a notification and let the game stops" so please stop playing now or it's warning for everyone....

We continue playing then.