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Spiel #613 Turnierspiel#40 | Round 3 : 2017 PBEM Duel Tournament #40

El_Lobo vs  Zytozid


Match-Details

Gespielt:2017-07-24
Rating 2 - Gutes Spiel
Anzahl der Spieler:2
Art des Reportes:2017 PBEM Duel Tournament
Kind of game:   PBEM
Spiel-wert: 38
Resultat Spieler Classes Races Team Punkte Extra Punkte Nicht gewonnene Punkte Quitter Bewerte
1 El_LoboSorcererDraconians125120hier
2 ZytozidArchdruidElves200-24hier
Beiträge zum Spiel:
user
Veröffentlicht am Tue, 10 Oct 2017 09:58:46 +0200

Confirmed by Zytozid
Confirmed by Zytozid
user
Veröffentlicht am Mon, 09 Oct 2017 15:08:09 +0200

Confirmed by El_Lobo
Confirmed by El_Lobo
user
Veröffentlicht am Tue, 25 Jul 2017 11:36:12 +0200

Confirmed by El_Lobo
Nice match with up's and down's on both sides.
user
Veröffentlicht am Tue, 25 Jul 2017 11:25:54 +0200

Confirmed by Zytozid
3
Normal match with sometimes confusingly acting AI.
user
Veröffentlicht am Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:09:39 +0200

613 | Age of Wonders 3
Match has been reported, please confirm!
user
Veröffentlicht am Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:06:46 +0200

So it's over and I'am quite happy to won this game after this horrible "first contact" around turn 15 or 16. Thank's to Zytozid. It was a very interesting game and I draw my lessons from it. I think you have had a good chance to win this game if you would have attacked my right after the first big fight.

user
Veröffentlicht am Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:44:15 +0200

I also guess it's dumb AI but that's just what you got to cope with. Happens. This is why I also like to play synchronized games with friends (:

By the way, Hiliadan or anyone else:The option to to upload a random scenario into map maker and edit it afterwards was not implemented and won't because it's too much work, right?
user
Veröffentlicht am Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:52:49 +0200

Yes it's true about Phase but the AI prioritize flanking a lot so it is not abnormal for it to do that. Though it is indeed probably something that should be changed in its code. Maybe you can post it here: http://aow.triumph.net/forums... (I don't believe the devs will change how the AI behave in auto combat any more, but who knows).
user
Veröffentlicht am Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:49:59 +0200

I have a copy of the save before the fight and one after the fight. Let me know if you are interested.
There were no guarding apprentices or heroes so for me it seems to be a normal fight. On the other hand the AI used the phasing ability very often. Sometime the apprentices use the phasing to get behind a unit and flank it instead of shooting twice. I think that is not a maximisation of damage because there is no counterstrike against ranged attacks.

I mean if I could phase I would use it the whole day but in this special case it's not really useful especially when they have the inflict stun ability. <smiletext0>
user
Veröffentlicht am Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:59:04 +0200

The AI does a lot of stupid things in auto (as you can also see yourself when you fight it in manual). Charging against ranged units (and splitting his troops with some slower ones staying behind) is one of them.
From your description, it seems it's a normal behavior. The things that are not normal is when the AI does not try to maximize the damage it can cause or minimize the damage it can take (thus Guarding, but that's rarer).
user
Veröffentlicht am Mon, 17 Jul 2017 01:06:37 +0200

So we have had a big battle this turn. It wasn't that weird like the two before but still the AI is far away from fighting tactical. This time Zytozid was affected from the dumb AI. All his melee attackers from the first stack (4 unicorns and an elephant) went directly in front of my troops which were mostly ranged units. So his units got flanked from nearly every side.

I uploaded the first screenshot because not all units have had full HP. Both of us havn't got any bonus or special abilitys from builings. My leader is level 12 and has the master illusionist ability what was quite helpful in the turns before. Zytozid's leader is level 9. Both have had a hero level 8 and a 3rd one around level five I think.



This one is after the fight.

user
Veröffentlicht am Sun, 16 Jul 2017 22:52:50 +0200

Good idea.
user
Veröffentlicht am Fri, 14 Jul 2017 19:04:25 +0200

For the devs to be able to investigate, they need to have a save from before the fight. So I suggest you save & quit before any big fight El Lobo, then if it goes bad, copy/paste the save BEFORE you send the turn to Zytozid (or before saving & exiting again, otherwise the old save will be crushed).
Your hero and these apprentices guarding is indeed weird.
user
Veröffentlicht am Fri, 14 Jul 2017 18:43:07 +0200

Can't upload the game as I can't watch the fight, there were too many other fights since then.
:/
We can keep track of the fights to come that are fought automatically.
user
Veröffentlicht am Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:50:34 +0200

Will upload it on my next turn, forgot to do it this time.
user
Veröffentlicht am Wed, 12 Jul 2017 22:26:01 +0200

So we are in Turn 39 now and have had another battle. The AI is weird again. Five apprentices and a wisp against a hunter, a zephir and a shaman. The zephir was killed from one apprentice in the first round. The hunter and the shaman just walked towards my troops. The other 4 apprentices took a defence stance insteand of using their fire bomb (the shaman and the hunter were close enought to use it). The shaman should be the only unit surviving the fire bombs but because of the defending of the apprentices the hunter was able to shoot and did some damage.

In the fight AI vs. player the AI always uses the fire bomb. Why does it not work in the fight player vs. player?
Unfortunately I couldn't make a video because I havn't got my own notebook this week. <smiletext6>
user
Veröffentlicht am Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:33:43 +0200

Hello,

It was just a minor battle and the outcome won't change much in the greater scope. Strange that the heroes didn't use any range attacks in the 1st combat round though.

You can continue!
user
Veröffentlicht am Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:03:08 +0200

Hi,

I just resent the video. Please check it out and consult on what we should do.

Zytozid
user
Veröffentlicht am Sat, 08 Jul 2017 18:30:57 +0200

Looks like marcus and I didn't receive it, so maybe good to resend it.

Dumb AI can be caused by desync. In my 2vs2 match, the AI started to do very strange things like not moving, taking flanking attacks to go attack a unit instead of killing another one, etc. because of desync.
user
Veröffentlicht am Sat, 08 Jul 2017 18:17:55 +0200

Zytozid told me that he sent the video to the judges. It' not a desync just a very dumb behaviour. I'll ask Zytozid where he sent the video.

EDIT: Zytizid told me that you got an E-Mail from him with the link to the video.
user
Veröffentlicht am Sat, 08 Jul 2017 18:12:59 +0200

Hello guys, so what's up? I think we did not receive the video from Zytozid?
If it's a desync as it happened to me, it means what you saw in the fight didn't really happen and then it's fine. If not, it would be good to report to the devs, to see if they can fix it (though not very likely I'm afraid), or maybe if we can fix it in the balance mod.

In general, the impact we can have on AI behaviour in tactical combat through mods is very limited. For instance I don't think we can change the fact that the AI prioritizes healing abilities at very awkward moments instead of attacking enemy units (or it would have side effects on "good timing" healing or be very complicated to make it work as we want).
user
Veröffentlicht am Thu, 06 Jul 2017 19:37:54 +0200

Hello guys,
If it really effect the outcome and it was extremely stupid/strange behaviour from the AI we should definitely watch it. 
So, please once again pause the game and upload the video to youtube as unlisted and send us the link in PM.

Shouldn't be a long delay, at least two judges will watch it by tomorrow morning.

Edit: here is a link about desync in auto combat replay, not sure if it's the case, but it have many similarities to Hiliadan's auto combat replay.
Link to triumph forum: http://aow.triumph.net/forums... />
/Marcus
user
Veröffentlicht am Thu, 06 Jul 2017 19:07:14 +0200

I recorded the video for el_lobo. I can send it to the judges or upload it after our game.
user
Veröffentlicht am Thu, 06 Jul 2017 00:47:05 +0200

We have had a fight this turn and what the AI is doing is completly weird. I'am downloading a tool to make a video from the screen but I have to end my turn now. Hopefully Zytozid can make a video. Defending heros just doing nothing, a melee attacking leader instead using a 3 shot weapon with the inflict stun ability. That's not what the AI on emperor should do.
user
Veröffentlicht am Wed, 05 Jul 2017 15:33:08 +0200

Thanks Marcus!

@El_Lobo I fear the same. Sorcerer is just quite strong end-game. But yeah, I'm preparing as well, of course. The power underneath <smiletext1>
user
Veröffentlicht am Wed, 05 Jul 2017 13:54:43 +0200

Hello!

You can continue your match, the judges consider the information provided is enough to give El_Lobo a warning with proof.

@El_Lobo Since this was your second crash/ironman notification you are encouraged to play in debug mode (you find this setting in the launcher under the tab "Miscellaneous"), so that if you have another crash the developers can look into the reasons and try solve it so that the bug don't happen over and over again!

Good luck in the battles to come!
user
Veröffentlicht am Tue, 04 Jul 2017 16:49:56 +0200

After this horrible fight against your troups I am getting more and more confident now. For you it would have been better to attack me right after this fight. We'll see how it goes on in the next turns. I am something between curious and unsecure because I havn't seen your leader for a while... :'(
user
Veröffentlicht am Tue, 04 Jul 2017 16:01:20 +0200

Bug/Crash
Good to know we are to stop playing when the game crashes. I already forgot about that.
El_Lobo, guess we'll have a fun 1on1 another time anyway after you beat me up this game, right? 
user
Veröffentlicht am Tue, 04 Jul 2017 11:35:17 +0200

Okay, sorry for that. I'll send you the screenshot when I am at home this evening.
The turn timer is already off. We were fine with that because both of us do their turns regulary. We are in turn 32 or 33 I think.
user
Veröffentlicht am Tue, 04 Jul 2017 09:50:47 +0200

Game Crash
Hi El_Lobo

The correct action is to not continue playing, ask for the timer to be turned off and send the screenshot/video to me, Hiliadan and Fistandtilus.

We will then look at the screenshot/video and get back to you with any questions.

As in regard to the replay of the battle and the lost unit, that's unfortunately not something we do anything about.
user
Veröffentlicht am Tue, 04 Jul 2017 00:11:30 +0200

I have had a game crash. I took a screen shot. To whom should I send the screenshot?

Unfortunately I won a fight without losing a unit and then the game crashed. When I repeated the fight I lost a unit...
user
Veröffentlicht am Sun, 02 Jul 2017 17:57:06 +0200

It is relatively common to get T4 from Dwelling quests (look for instance at my videos from our round 3 of the 2vs2 Team Tournament game where Jonny got 3 Giants from his Dwelling) but there was indeed something weird in the quest Zytozid got. Still, the judges considered the game could be continued as T4 rewards like this were not totally unseen and the issue seemed to be more with the gold reward than the T4 reward itself. Triumph will investigate the quest, and in retrospect, I think it is worth investigating more (and I'll probably try to make some tests later on with Archon Dwellings to see).

If you want, we can discuss this more by PM El Lobo. <smiletext0>
user
Veröffentlicht am Sun, 02 Jul 2017 13:34:49 +0200

Yup, el_lobo went into my trap scout and killed it but then was unable to retreat back far enough fro mmy army. Still, the Archon and the fearsome ability helped incredibly much, of course.

We'll see how it plays out now.
user
Veröffentlicht am Sat, 01 Jul 2017 20:41:49 +0200

Unfortunately I forgot to make a screenshot from the battle. Maybe Zytozid has one. My plan was to attack him with a single unit but he attacked me first. I did not scout very well and so I moved forward too far. I couldn't reach him to attack and I couldn't go back to escape. My fault but I will mention it the next time.

I did a quest for this archonian dwelling too and I got a bit gold and a bowman (T1). That's a slight different in comparison to a T4 titan.
user
Veröffentlicht am Sat, 01 Jul 2017 20:00:01 +0200

I assume Zytozid engaged your superior forces then? Otherwise a single unit attack from you would dispel all army buffs on him! 

Would be great to see a screenshot later from that battle, a long with any extra information you already mentioned (terrain, all army buffs etc.) and we could try to replicate it or see how it could be done differently in manual battle!

Zytozid did send us (the judges) information about the T4 quest reward and we saw it as fair. 

From my knowledge, the only way to get a T4 as a quest reward is via Giant dwellings, Achron Dwellings or Naga Dwellings, Dragons dont offer T4 rewards, thank god!

You are probably right in that this is a too great of a reward, especially early in the game, so we will probably look into if it's possible to code in such a limitation and then do a poll to get all players feedback.

/Marcus
user
Veröffentlicht am Sat, 01 Jul 2017 19:25:22 +0200

As Zytozid wrote he won the first big clash. My army was much stronger but he has some nice boosts like regrowth, no ground penalty (the fight was on blighted ground) and inflict curse. In addition he got a T4 unit (Archonian Titan) for a quest reward and a technocrat hero with the fearsome ability on level 1. Both things are way to strong for a midgame. I even havn't had a T3 unit and this archonian titan with regrowth is nearly impossible to kill with T1 and T2 units. I have played about 750 hours AoW3 now and I never got a T4 unit as a quest reward. This hero with the fearsome ability panicked my elite raptor within the first strike so my strongest melee unit was out of the fight with doing no damage (exept the 1 hit he did against this hero).

All in all it was a very unlucky fight for me but I have to deal with it. Anyways Zytozid did not attack me while my leader was in the void and so I could get my leader back and build up a small army again. We'll see if I just won a few turns or if there is still a chance to win the game. It's turn 26 now.
user
Veröffentlicht am Sat, 01 Jul 2017 11:55:07 +0200

Yeah it is. El_Lobo gathered a considerable army early on but I could hold him back this time. I believe the game is going to be exciting!
user
Veröffentlicht am Mon, 26 Jun 2017 10:34:17 +0200

Hi, everything is fine. We are in turn 14 or 15 I think and have had the first contact 2 turns ago. It's getting more and more interesting now! :-)
user
Veröffentlicht am Sun, 25 Jun 2017 14:33:03 +0200

Hello! How is your game going? What is the turn reached so far?
Veröffentlicht am Mon, 12 Jun 2017 00:16:28 +0200
System Benachrichtung


Round 3 : 2017 PBEM Duel Tournament #40
Please click here to read the rules. In order to avoid advantaging one team or the other, for each match, the team who will host the match was randomly selected.The first team in the "turn order" above (who is also the team on top in the tree here) must host the game. Tournament Game #40 Round $roundza ! When players do not show up for their match, the Tournament Judges have the right to change the match!